Looks like Ford done blinked

"Brian, The Life of" (familycar) 01/03/2017 at 11:30 • Filed to: None

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Ford cancels Mexico plant. Will create 700 U.S. jobs in ‘vote of confidence’ in Trump

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boredalways > Brian, The Life of 01/03/2017 at 11:35

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Looks like Ferd was grabbed by their pussy

LongbowMkII > Brian, The Life of 01/03/2017 at 11:39

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Hybrid mustang? Lede buried.

OPPOsaurus WRX > LongbowMkII 01/03/2017 at 11:44

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we dont need hybrids remember? global warming was just created by the chinese

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > boredalways 01/03/2017 at 11:45

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The Donald’s famous. There’s nothing they could do.

MonkeePuzzle > Brian, The Life of 01/03/2017 at 11:45

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just what trump needs, more votes...

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Brian, The Life of 01/03/2017 at 11:47

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Odds on those jobs surviving the 4 years of the Trump administration? The Focus and Fiesta don’t sell great and don’t make a massive profit when they do.

jimz > Brian, The Life of 01/03/2017 at 11:52

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Focus is still going south, just to Hermosillo instead of a new plant.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > MonkeePuzzle 01/03/2017 at 11:52

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He needs just under 3 million more.

PatBateman > Brian, The Life of 01/03/2017 at 11:53

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I’m not saying that you’re insinuating this, Brian, but why is it that when Ford says that they’re turning to expansion in Michigan and investing $700MM there, it’s viewed as a bad thing? Because they say that they think Trump’s vision is doable? Are we to cheer on the iceberg instead of hoping that the Captain navigates us to better waters?

At what point do we stop hoping for economic malaise and start rooting for the home team?

Mercedes Streeter > Brian, The Life of 01/03/2017 at 11:54

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Carrier is still moving jobs to Mexico. Trump “saved” 800 jobs at one plant, just for Carrier to say “lol okay” and decide to move about 1300 other jobs to Mexico anyway.

McMike > Brian, The Life of 01/03/2017 at 12:00

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I would love it if they made this announcement, only to continue with their original plan at a later date.

Forge Crown Victor! > Brian, The Life of 01/03/2017 at 12:04

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FSFL covered this around election time on the podcast. you guys should check them out on soundcloud

Brian, The Life of > PatBateman 01/03/2017 at 12:04

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Serious question: Who is hoping for economic malaise?

Bourbon&JellyBeans > Brian, The Life of 01/03/2017 at 12:05

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700 jobs seems pretty immaterial in the long run. Whatever they do will probably be phased out by machinery in the next 10 years anyways. Trump is fighting a battle of diminishing returns.

Bourbon&JellyBeans > McMike 01/03/2017 at 12:07

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Sort of like how Trump seems to want to run his presidency...only with more aforethought I guess.

PatBateman > Brian, The Life of 01/03/2017 at 12:17

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It appears that quite a few commenters here and on the FP are disturbed by all the positives that have been happening, basically booing when something good turns up because of Trump. This leads me to believe that they would cheer for bad things happening because of Trump.

I’m not exactly a fan of this guy (and it reflected in my vote), but people being pissy when a major corporation says that they’re creating jobs and investing in a downtrodden state like Michigan instead of a foreign country doesn’t make sense.  

Brian, The Life of > PatBateman 01/03/2017 at 12:28

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Honestly this whole news story is rather strange to me. It’s like they are giving Trump credit for a a move they were already going to make. This is not about reversing their decision to build small/low-cost car models in Mexico, they are still going forward with that. This is about building the new electrified models here.

Stapleface > Brian, The Life of 01/03/2017 at 12:31

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Well, that’s good for Michigan if it holds true. I just can’t imagine that this cost won’t be passed on to the consumer. There had to be a good reason Ford planned on building the plant in Mexico. What has changed that it’s now economically viable for them to keep the jobs in the US?

For Sweden > Brian, The Life of 01/03/2017 at 12:40

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Looks like Ford received a sweetheart deal.

In other news, Oppositelock is looking to move all author positions to Mexico.

LOREM IPSUM > Brian, The Life of 01/03/2017 at 12:41

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I think it’s important that people hope for the best and actually try to get behind the incoming president and support his efforts.

If he fails, feel free to lambast him.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people who will vocally shit all over him and his administration regardless of whether his actions benefit the country or not, mostly because they’re a bunch of self entitled sore losers.

Even if he turns out to be the best president since Lincoln, we’re going to be hearing 4 years of hatred-spewing on a level unseen since GWB.

nermal > Brian, The Life of 01/03/2017 at 12:42

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The new president is using some interesting tactics - He’s basically shaming auto manufactures into moving production back to the US.

The problem is that due to NAFTA, it has been more economically feasible to build vehicles in Mexico, then import them into the US. So, auto manufacturers moved production there. Moving manufacturing to a more cost effective location is a Good Business Move (tm).

The question is, what now? Do we opt out of NAFTA? What impact does that have overall, not just on auto production? What happens if we see that NAFTA is a net benefit to the US, despite losing some auto manufacturing to Mexico as a result?

On a side note, in terms of scale, Ram and Chevy pickups are the #2 and #3 best selling vehicles of 2016, both with significant production in Mexico. Why not go after them as well?

Nerd-Vol > PatBateman 01/03/2017 at 12:46

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It’s an odd thing. There are plenty of folks who think Trump is the worst of the worst. Selfish or not, many people don’t want to see him succeed at this so they can feel vindicated about their viewpoint.

I mean if you are a Russian who doesn’t like Putin, are you happy when he kept jobs in your country? If you were a Cuban who opposed Castro, were you happy to see him be successful in political dealings?

Also, this is nothing new, there were plenty of people who wanted to watch Obama fail from jump street.

Brian, The Life of > For Sweden 01/03/2017 at 12:47

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Then we’ll need at least one local admin ... I’m in!

Brian, The Life of > LOREM IPSUM 01/03/2017 at 12:49

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Even if he turns out to be the best president since Lincoln, we’re going to be hearing 4 years of hatred-spewing on a level unseen since GWB.

Have you been asleep for the last 8 years?

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > For Sweden 01/03/2017 at 12:50

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will opposite lock provide free drinks?

Xyl0c41n3 > Brian, The Life of 01/03/2017 at 12:52

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Get outta here with your pesky “facts,” Brian!

Xyl0c41n3 > LongbowMkII 01/03/2017 at 12:52

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I’d drive one.

Brian, The Life of > nermal 01/03/2017 at 12:53

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But when did Ford announce that they were going to build their electrified new models in Mexico? They did announce that they were moving small car production to Mexico and that bit has not changed (that I’m aware). That is what Trump originally shamed them for. I’m a bit confused by all this.

LOREM IPSUM > Brian, The Life of 01/03/2017 at 12:57

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No, just here in Canada.

Granted, Obama has his vocal opponents but that was nothing even remotely close to the level of international hatred that Bush inspired.

Trump hasn’t even been inaugurated yet and the player haters ball is filled to capacity already.

Mercedes Streeter > PatBateman 01/03/2017 at 13:04

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I think it’s because people are upset that companies and the media are actually deciding to bow down to Trump instead of giving him a big ol’ middle finger.

The problem with Trump’s “deals” is that they always come with huge caveats. Like, in order to achieve his vision, he’s going to give big tax breaks to any company that keeps labour in America...which sure, will save about few thousand jobs or so here and there.

However, that will happen at the expense of the American taxpayer, who will be footing the bill for the massive tax breaks Trump talks about. Or in other words, privatize the gains, socialize the losses.

Brian, The Life of > LOREM IPSUM 01/03/2017 at 13:05

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I believe he earned every bit of that considering his behavior during the election. Trump has to dig himself out of his goodwill hole that he dug for himself. It is not on us to assume he wasn’t what he repeatedly said he was, it is up to him to prove it. Look, I sincerely hope he does become the best President since FDR. I will happily vote for him in 2016 if he proves us and himself wrong but ... Occam’s Razor, dude.

LOREM IPSUM > Brian, The Life of 01/03/2017 at 13:09

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I’m not disagreeing with you at all, just tired of everyone’s bitching already.

It’s gonna be a long 4 years. Lol

nermal > Brian, The Life of 01/03/2017 at 13:10

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I am also confused. Simply looking at one item (autos) seems extremely short sighted in the big picture - How much does the US benefit overall by having free trade with Canada and Mexico? From what I have read they are the two highest countries of export for the US. That’s good.

How much will imposing an import tariff from products manufactured in Mexico and Canada hurt or help the US? 

PatBateman > Brian, The Life of 01/03/2017 at 13:11

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I’m talking more about the big picture here. No $1B+ plant in Mexico, $700MM the investment in Michigan + 700 jobs (not including the jobs associated with the build out).

They’re giving Trump’s vision a shot.

Rico > PatBateman 01/03/2017 at 13:13

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My complaint is why should it take a tweet from Trump to open the eyes of our corporate overlords? If this plan was doable from the beginning why even have ANY thought about moving the production to another country?

Let’s face facts it is killing Ford and any other US based corp. (not literally, figuratively) to NOT move production to cheaper countries. They won’t be able to reap the benefits of more profits which is truly all that matters at the end of the day. Moving production or opening a new plant in another country doesn’t happen overnight, it takes planning and part of the plan is how much money will be saved by doing it compared to keeping production where it currently is.

Obviously no automotive company will go bankrupt by keeping production in the US but they sure as hell won’t be making as much profit, and that burns their buns even if they don’t say it.

LongbowMkII > PatBateman 01/03/2017 at 13:25

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The fact that the compact sedan market is shrinking and self-driving/electric car market is growing has so much more to do with this than Trump.

fintail > LOREM IPSUM 01/03/2017 at 13:29

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Just wait - Canuckistanians lag. Harper was your Dubya, Trudeau is your Obama - who will be your Trump?

LongbowMkII > Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras 01/03/2017 at 13:33

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Free water.

Out, but with a W - has found the answer > Brian, The Life of 01/03/2017 at 13:36

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Read an interesting thought in the local news, in an article discussing Putin’s amazing 2016: while it appears things will be going even better in 2017, what with the Trumputin bromance and all, it won’t necessarily be the case. Russia’s resurrection and Putin’s strength were strongly linked to the latter’s unpredictability, and their opponents predictability (e.g. no one had really foreseen the Krim annexation, but Putin knew no one would lift a finger). With Trump at the helm, Putin’s got a likeminded, unpredictable factor to deal with.

Anyway, I think we’re seeing a similar thing to Putin’s strategy happening in the US right now: companies can’t predict what Trump will and will not do (or tweet), so better safe than sorry. Whether Trump is aware of (t)his effect is another discussion, but I wouldn’t bet against it.

DipodomysDeserti > LOREM IPSUM 01/03/2017 at 13:53

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Granted, Obama has his vocal opponents but that was nothing even remotely close to the level of international hatred that Bush inspired.

Internationally, yes, but not in the states. I’ve heard Obama called the N word multiple times, and my former Sheriff is still accusing him of being foreign born (which wouldn’t disqualify him from being president anyways). 

PatBateman > Mercedes Streeter 01/03/2017 at 13:59

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Here in Texas, we give tax breaks to companies that move here and create jobs. The more jobs we have here, the more sales tax/ad valorem tax the state collects. This also creates jobs at restaurants, grocery stores, gas stations, and construction companies, because those people who have jobs need all of these things.

Tax breaks for companies who employ people can be good things, as long as the public gets something in return.

PatBateman > Rico 01/03/2017 at 14:05

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It burns their buns to pay taxes, benefits, pensions, etc. But what they DO get from it, for their lost profit, is reputation. “Come buy this car from us! It’s made right here in the USA!!” I know people that won’t buy some Japanese cars because they weren’t made here. I myself have never daily driven a foreign car because I want to drive something made domestically.

The tide of opinion is turning for many people in the US. Globalization hasn’t worked out as well as they expected. Whether it took some Trump tweets to make all of this happen or not remains to be seen.

PatBateman > LongbowMkII 01/03/2017 at 14:10

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Should it be viewed as a negative, even if Ford attributed their action in some part to Trump?

Rico > PatBateman 01/03/2017 at 14:30

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“ I know people that won’t buy some Japanese cars because they weren’t made here.”

But this is backwards thinking, this isn’t the 80's anymore. You’ve got Mercedes cars being built in Spartanburg, SC and Vance, Alabama (of all fucking places), Honda’s built in Ohio, BMW’s in SC and the list goes on

As you can see you’ve got Ford’s being built in Mexico right across from you (Texas if I’m not mistaken). Has anyone ever told you they wouldn’t buy [insert Ford model] because it’s built in Mexico? What about some Chevy’s (I think the Silverado) being built in Mexico?

Yes absolutely, the PR move for this is going to be a positive. But again, when they were planning and researching investing in Mexico (which they likely have been planning for over a year) do you think they stopped to think how much better it would be for the American people to keep production here? If they thought keeping production in Michigan would be best for the American people then thought of opening any plant outside of the US would not have even crossed their minds.

Maybe globalization doesn’t help the common man but for corporations it has done great things for their bottom line. It is exactly why the factories are even built in Mexico/China etc.

A quick search shows me the following “American” cars are built in Mexico.

Cadillac Escalade EXT

Cadillac SRX

Chevrolet Avalanche

Chevrolet Aveo

Chevrolet HHR

Chevrolet Silverado

Chevrolet Silverado Hybrid

Dodge Journey

Ford Fiesta

Ford Fusion

Ford Fusion Hybrid

GMC Sierra

GMC Sierra Hybrid

GMC Sierra Crew Cab

Lincoln MKZ

Lincoln MKZ Hybrid

Dodge Ram 2500

Dodge Ram 3500

Dodge Ram 4500

Dodge Ram 5500

That list is WAY longer than even I expected. I highly doubt the people who buy these cars/trucks even know that they are built in Mexico.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > fintail 01/03/2017 at 14:32

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Probably Doug Ford.

Mercedes Streeter > PatBateman 01/03/2017 at 14:36

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Ah, unfortunately it doesn’t work like that here in the Midwest. Big company gets big tax break for coming here, then they decide to keep the spoils all to themselves while leaving us in the cold. The Midwest consistently gets burned when corporations get big breaks.

Now, Ford has been better than the rest (usually when they get breaks, they add jobs to the workforce), but others (like Wal-Mart) will choke us for everything we have. :(

PatBateman > Rico 01/03/2017 at 14:40

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When I said “some”, I meant the ones that are not made in the US. Camrys made in Kentucky and Toyota Tundras made in San Antonio, for example, are obviously not on the “do not own” list. And being a car guy myself, I know which cars are and are not built in the US.

My wife’s family is from NW Indiana. It has traditionally been a place where Japanese cars get keyed for not being a Ford/Chevy/Dodge. There are plenty of places in Middle America that this happens as well.

Yes, I’m from Texas. My car was made in Lansing. Before that, Kansas City and Arlington.

PatBateman > Mercedes Streeter 01/03/2017 at 14:43

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Walmart is the epitome of horrible corporations and should die a painful death. I did a paper on them in college (2002), and even back then the information I found made me never shop at their stores again unless it was absolutely mandatory. Screw them.

That sucks about what happens up there. Move to Texas!! I promise we’re good people!!! :)

Rico > PatBateman 01/03/2017 at 14:53

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First and foremost let me just say that I am in no way trying to attack you or anything. Re-reading my posts it could come off as being argumentative but I’m actually enjoying this dialogue between us and I don’t want you to think I’m mad. I enjoy reading and hearing about other perspectives and you living in Texas gives me insight I normally wouldn’t have. I appreciate that!

—-

With regards to your answer: the difference here is that you are well informed consumer. I doubt most people would even look into if their Ford was built here or in Mexico/Canada. The example you made of Japanese cars being keyed, anyone ignorant enough to do that certainly isn’t going to know that Tundra was built in San Antonio by a red blooded American who is providing for his or her family. They see a badge and they’ve already formed their decision.

And circling back I’m still of the mind that if Ford thought it was a good idea to keep production in the US they wouldn’t have considered an alternative at all.

PatBateman > Rico 01/03/2017 at 15:01

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I didn’t take your comment as anything less than a cordial conversation. I was actually worried about my tone in the first paragraph coming across as snide!! It wasn’t meant to be, I promise.

You’re absolutely right about many people seeing the Toyota badge and assuming that it was made in Japan. We see it all the time. It’s quite annoying, actually; “I want an American-made car” doesn’t always equate to actually buying an American-made car. Down here in Texas, it is WIDELY known that the Tundra is built in SA, as there are commercials stating this fact. A buddy of mine bought a Platinum Tundra, because “What’s better than Japanese engineering on a Texas truck?” I can’t really argue with him. Plus, that truck is nice as hell.

I don’t see any commercials stating that the Camry is built in the US, though. They might want to change that soon.

Mercedes Streeter > PatBateman 01/03/2017 at 15:11

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It’s crazy how bad Walmart is out here. Pick any small town that has a Walmart, then look at before & after pics. Walmart somehow figures out to suck the local economy for all it has. Mum & Pop stores shutter, less powerful competitors (K-Mart, sometimes Meijer) get shoved out of town taking any other business that was in the strip mall with them...then just to add salt to the wound, they’ll hire people from out of town.

That said, we’ve taken colossal hits from industry too. When automakers move states, close down, or go overseas, it leaves a hole in the community that pretty much never gets filled.

And, I would move to Texas so long as your state government would keep their heads on straight and stop trying to attack LGBT people. :P For all the corruption in our politics, at least Illinois is still pretty safe in that regard!

fintail > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 01/03/2017 at 15:56

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That’ll be fun. It’s all a pendulum.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > fintail 01/03/2017 at 16:13

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Yup... lots of fun. All we’ll need is to buy a pallet of Tums...